Comments for Everything is Backwards http://blog.dmichaelclary.com Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:19:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 Comment on Why I’m Planting a Racially Diverse Church in Cincinnati by Why I’m Planting a Racially Diverse Church In Cincinnati (10 Reasons) at Everything is Backwards http://blog.dmichaelclary.com/2008/08/15/why-im-planting-a-racially-diverse-church-in-cincinnati/#comment-598 Why I’m Planting a Racially Diverse Church In Cincinnati (10 Reasons) at Everything is Backwards Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:02:20 +0000 http://blog.dmichaelclary.com/?p=271#comment-598 [...] Register « Why I’m Planting a Racially Diverse Church in Cincinnati [...] [...] Register « Why I’m Planting a Racially Diverse Church in Cincinnati [...]

]]> Comment on Why I’m Planting a Racially Diverse Church in Cincinnati by Ryan http://blog.dmichaelclary.com/2008/08/15/why-im-planting-a-racially-diverse-church-in-cincinnati/#comment-597 Ryan Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:12:23 +0000 http://blog.dmichaelclary.com/?p=271#comment-597 Just for the record, I don't mean it in a "all white people are power hungry" way. Instead I mean it in a way of power equaling control of one's person and decisions. By being a minority (whether in a neighborhood, church or country) one is less likely to have power over these things and more likely to be subject to the majority's desires. While many African-Americans are used to this (though not necessarily happily accepting of it, nor would it make sense for them to be) white Americans rarely have to accept this in terms of race. I think this is why immigration and affirmative action are such hot button "angry white male" issues. Thanks for the honesty, Michael. Just for the record, I don’t mean it in a “all white people are power hungry” way. Instead I mean it in a way of power equaling control of one’s person and decisions. By being a minority (whether in a neighborhood, church or country) one is less likely to have power over these things and more likely to be subject to the majority’s desires. While many African-Americans are used to this (though not necessarily happily accepting of it, nor would it make sense for them to be) white Americans rarely have to accept this in terms of race. I think this is why immigration and affirmative action are such hot button “angry white male” issues.

Thanks for the honesty, Michael.

]]> Comment on Why I’m Planting a Racially Diverse Church in Cincinnati by Michael Clary http://blog.dmichaelclary.com/2008/08/15/why-im-planting-a-racially-diverse-church-in-cincinnati/#comment-596 Michael Clary Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:03:51 +0000 http://blog.dmichaelclary.com/?p=271#comment-596 Good word, Ryan. I've felt that fear of losing power myself. Good word, Ryan. I’ve felt that fear of losing power myself.

]]> Comment on Why I’m Planting a Racially Diverse Church in Cincinnati by Ryan http://blog.dmichaelclary.com/2008/08/15/why-im-planting-a-racially-diverse-church-in-cincinnati/#comment-595 Ryan Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:08:56 +0000 http://blog.dmichaelclary.com/?p=271#comment-595 You wrote "White people might fear losing their music, their traditions, their comfort." I believe this is true in as far as it goes, but I think a larger fear for many whites may be the loss of power. If you look at society in the U.S. essentially everything is controlled by white people. People often mask this fear in other issues and causes like immigration and affirmative action, but often the true issue is power. For instance, I often hear people say something along the lines of "soon we (whites) won't be the majority race anymore." First of all the statement is untrue, because even if whites compromise less than fifty percent they will still probably make up the majority. Secondly, so what if white's aren't the majority? Are they afraid of retribution from past and present sins done toward whole racial groups? I'm using an argument about a worldly political issue, but we in the church rarely think outside of worldly paradigms. We think in "us vs. them" rather than "Jesus and his people." There are a lot of churches that are mostly African-American with white pastors, but rarely does the opposite occur. Why is that? I would say because African-Americans are used to whites having power but whites generally aren't willing to hand over the reigns. You wrote “White people might fear losing their music, their traditions, their comfort.” I believe this is true in as far as it goes, but I think a larger fear for many whites may be the loss of power. If you look at society in the U.S. essentially everything is controlled by white people. People often mask this fear in other issues and causes like immigration and affirmative action, but often the true issue is power. For instance, I often hear people say something along the lines of “soon we (whites) won’t be the majority race anymore.” First of all the statement is untrue, because even if whites compromise less than fifty percent they will still probably make up the majority. Secondly, so what if white’s aren’t the majority? Are they afraid of retribution from past and present sins done toward whole racial groups? I’m using an argument about a worldly political issue, but we in the church rarely think outside of worldly paradigms. We think in “us vs. them” rather than “Jesus and his people.” There are a lot of churches that are mostly African-American with white pastors, but rarely does the opposite occur. Why is that? I would say because African-Americans are used to whites having power but whites generally aren’t willing to hand over the reigns.

]]> Comment on Are Cincinnati’s Race Problems Overblown? by John Paul McEwan http://blog.dmichaelclary.com/2008/08/04/are-cincinnatis-race-problems-overblown/#comment-591 John Paul McEwan Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:35:06 +0000 http://blog.dmichaelclary.com/?p=269#comment-591 My Two Cents This is a wonderful thread that is being processed within the context of a very Caucasian medium. Religious blogs of the theological bent are dominated my white males. I find that humorous. I hope those of you from Cincinnati will humble yourselves before the Lord and be very careful to help Michael Clary succeed with patience and love. Now on to a few comments of my own... I agree with Michael Clary in his diagnosis of a serious problem in American Christianity. Cincinnati happens to be close enough to the Mason/Dixon line that she suffers like a city caught between several vastly different ethnic identities. The Church in Cincinnati looks almost (don’t know the stats) like every other city in the Midwestern U.S. The difference happens to be that several years ago a pressure cooker boiled over in our fair city and through a series of poor choices on the part of city government we are now labeled a city of prejudice. I believe the race problem in Cincinnati is severe. I believe the race problem in Louisville where Michael went to school is bad. Should we expect the race problems in our city to be non-existent when The Church is virtually split in half? I don’t think so. There are several ways to view the “badness” of Cincinnati’s problem. To someone uninvolved in the turmoil that led up to the inner city uprising here the day seemed less like a riot and more like a march of civil unrest with a few incidents of minor disturbance. To a black mother whose child was killed by a white cop… those riots were fierce and well deserved. This post has turned into a much larger discussion about how Caucasoid peoples and Negroid peoples interact and why. I would be willing to go further and say that this is more of a discussion of how low-income-post-slavery-displaced-Africans-living-in-the-United States interact socially / religiously with the culture of power. This description helps to break down the separate aspects to our “race” problem. I think “race problem” is a general term that lacks specificity. I would prefer to have a dialogue about what constitutes healthy culture and then seek to employ health than to play the power game of the race dialogue. Finally, I agree that there is a problem in Cincinnati between the various ethnic identities but I want to stay far away from the power game. My hope is not some sweeping corporate answer of reconciliation. My hope is learning to see past my dislike of particular cultural tokens and to befriend people regardless of their color the way Jesus does. Please pray that I would endure the discomfort of bridging cultures the way Christ would have me persevere. My Two Cents

This is a wonderful thread that is being processed within the context of a very Caucasian medium. Religious blogs of the theological bent are dominated my white males. I find that humorous. I hope those of you from Cincinnati will humble yourselves before the Lord and be very careful to help Michael Clary succeed with patience and love. Now on to a few comments of my own…
I agree with Michael Clary in his diagnosis of a serious problem in American Christianity. Cincinnati happens to be close enough to the Mason/Dixon line that she suffers like a city caught between several vastly different ethnic identities. The Church in Cincinnati looks almost (don’t know the stats) like every other city in the Midwestern U.S. The difference happens to be that several years ago a pressure cooker boiled over in our fair city and through a series of poor choices on the part of city government we are now labeled a city of prejudice. I believe the race problem in Cincinnati is severe. I believe the race problem in Louisville where Michael went to school is bad. Should we expect the race problems in our city to be non-existent when The Church is virtually split in half? I don’t think so. There are several ways to view the “badness” of Cincinnati’s problem. To someone uninvolved in the turmoil that led up to the inner city uprising here the day seemed less like a riot and more like a march of civil unrest with a few incidents of minor disturbance. To a black mother whose child was killed by a white cop… those riots were fierce and well deserved.
This post has turned into a much larger discussion about how Caucasoid peoples and Negroid peoples interact and why. I would be willing to go further and say that this is more of a discussion of how low-income-post-slavery-displaced-Africans-living-in-the-United States interact socially / religiously with the culture of power. This description helps to break down the separate aspects to our “race” problem. I think “race problem” is a general term that lacks specificity. I would prefer to have a dialogue about what constitutes healthy culture and then seek to employ health than to play the power game of the race dialogue. Finally, I agree that there is a problem in Cincinnati between the various ethnic identities but I want to stay far away from the power game. My hope is not some sweeping corporate answer of reconciliation. My hope is learning to see past my dislike of particular cultural tokens and to befriend people regardless of their color the way Jesus does. Please pray that I would endure the discomfort of bridging cultures the way Christ would have me persevere.

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